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	<title>Comments on: The Monday news update: March 2, 2009</title>
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		<title>By: John E. Holliday</title>
		<link>http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2009/03/02/the-monday-news-update-march-2-2009/#comment-3132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John E. Holliday]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/?p=4368#comment-3132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All this really demonstrates is that, for the urological surgeon involved, &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;he&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; has had better margin results than he did with RRP.  Judging from his exceptionally high percentage of positive margins in RRP, I would suggest that he may not be very good at that procedure. This allows for a substantial improvement when only compared to his &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;own&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; RRP capabilities. Several other studies have found exactly the opposite results.

I have long held that RALP likely improves the abilities of &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt;surgeons, just as Dr. Krongrad feels LRP improved his individual results are superior to RRP, as he said, &quot;in &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;his&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; hands&quot;.  His own statement indicated that RRP, &quot;in &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;his&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; hands,&quot; &quot;nearly always&quot; required transfusions averaging 2 pints of blood. Although he stated in an article published in a Florida newspaper, he stated that his preferred LRP method would have saved 7,000 pints of blood, based on the erroneous assumption that each of 3,500 RRPs cited would have required comparable transfusion numbers that HE had experienced.  

Statistically, modern RRPs reported in more current studies in the U.S. generally report transfusions as necessary in a &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;substantial minority&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; of surgeries performed. My own surgeon at Mayo Clinic reports that his own results show such a necessity in &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;rare&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; instances (substantially under 10%).

There is little doubt that if I was to have Dr. Krongrad do my surgery, I would want him to do LRP, but if I was to have Dr. Walsh (Johns Hopkins) or Dr. Catalona (Northwestern), both of whom have publicly stated they feel RRP is a superior technique (in &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;their&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; hands), then that is what I would want them to perform.

I tell those whom I counsel about prostate cancer, that there are two ways to approach treatment choice.  One is to choose the &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;procedure&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; you wish to have performed and then find the &quot;best&quot; physician who regularly performs it, to provide the treatment.  The second, is to choose the &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;physician&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; you prefer and have the treatment which he feels most comfortable in performing and feels most appropriate to your individual circumstances.  Which method you prefer depends on many factors, including your own personality characteristics.  What treatment you have and who you have 
perform it, also depends on numerous factors, including economics, psychological and physical limitations and personal priorities.

Such decisions should be &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;informed&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; ones, and can and should, only be made by the patient after he feels he has acquired the necessary information to make it one.  Once made, it should be approached with confidence and should &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;never&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; second-guessed, regardless of results, since &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;no one&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; can ever know what the result of any other choice would have been.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All this really demonstrates is that, for the urological surgeon involved, <i><b>he</b></i> has had better margin results than he did with RRP.  Judging from his exceptionally high percentage of positive margins in RRP, I would suggest that he may not be very good at that procedure. This allows for a substantial improvement when only compared to his <b><i>own</i></b> RRP capabilities. Several other studies have found exactly the opposite results.</p>
<p>I have long held that RALP likely improves the abilities of <b><i>some</i></b>surgeons, just as Dr. Krongrad feels LRP improved his individual results are superior to RRP, as he said, &#8220;in <b><i>his</i></b> hands&#8221;.  His own statement indicated that RRP, &#8220;in <b><i>his</i></b> hands,&#8221; &#8220;nearly always&#8221; required transfusions averaging 2 pints of blood. Although he stated in an article published in a Florida newspaper, he stated that his preferred LRP method would have saved 7,000 pints of blood, based on the erroneous assumption that each of 3,500 RRPs cited would have required comparable transfusion numbers that HE had experienced.  </p>
<p>Statistically, modern RRPs reported in more current studies in the U.S. generally report transfusions as necessary in a <b><i>substantial minority</i></b> of surgeries performed. My own surgeon at Mayo Clinic reports that his own results show such a necessity in <b><i>rare</i></b> instances (substantially under 10%).</p>
<p>There is little doubt that if I was to have Dr. Krongrad do my surgery, I would want him to do LRP, but if I was to have Dr. Walsh (Johns Hopkins) or Dr. Catalona (Northwestern), both of whom have publicly stated they feel RRP is a superior technique (in <i><b>their</b></i> hands), then that is what I would want them to perform.</p>
<p>I tell those whom I counsel about prostate cancer, that there are two ways to approach treatment choice.  One is to choose the <b><i>procedure</i></b> you wish to have performed and then find the &#8220;best&#8221; physician who regularly performs it, to provide the treatment.  The second, is to choose the <b><i>physician</i></b> you prefer and have the treatment which he feels most comfortable in performing and feels most appropriate to your individual circumstances.  Which method you prefer depends on many factors, including your own personality characteristics.  What treatment you have and who you have<br />
perform it, also depends on numerous factors, including economics, psychological and physical limitations and personal priorities.</p>
<p>Such decisions should be <b><i>informed</i></b> ones, and can and should, only be made by the patient after he feels he has acquired the necessary information to make it one.  Once made, it should be approached with confidence and should <b><i>never</i></b> second-guessed, regardless of results, since <b><i>no one</i></b> can ever know what the result of any other choice would have been.</p>
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		<title>By: E. Michael D. ("Mike") Scott</title>
		<link>http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2009/03/02/the-monday-news-update-march-2-2009/#comment-3097</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[E. Michael D. ("Mike") Scott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/?p=4368#comment-3097</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Leah: I must respectfully disagree with you. This study reports the results achieved by &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;a single surgeon&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; who did &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; of the procedures referred to in a single time period. The abstract very clearly states this, as follows: &quot;We present our series comparing &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;a single urologist&#039;s&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; positive margin rates during the learning curve of a robotics program with &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;his experience&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; of a similarly matched cohort of RRP patients.&quot; And with respect to the institution the surgeon was working at, who cares, if he is a good surgeon?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Leah: I must respectfully disagree with you. This study reports the results achieved by <i><b>a single surgeon</b></i> who did <i><b>all</b></i> of the procedures referred to in a single time period. The abstract very clearly states this, as follows: &#8220;We present our series comparing <b><i>a single urologist&#8217;s</i></b> positive margin rates during the learning curve of a robotics program with <b><i>his experience</i></b> of a similarly matched cohort of RRP patients.&#8221; And with respect to the institution the surgeon was working at, who cares, if he is a good surgeon?</p>
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		<title>By: Leah</title>
		<link>http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2009/03/02/the-monday-news-update-march-2-2009/#comment-3081</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/?p=4368#comment-3081</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just read the entire abstract and am even more convinced of the implausibility of the study results.  It  compared the outcomes of ONE open surgeon vs. those of participants in a newly initiated RALP program.  With such a wide disparity in results, the only explanation I can think of is that the surgeon in question was blind.

Should I really believe that there was a 31% disparity between results obtained by a trainee  in RALP vs. a (presumably) experienced open surgeon for GS 7 disease?  

I&#039;d like to see these results replicated at a respectable institution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read the entire abstract and am even more convinced of the implausibility of the study results.  It  compared the outcomes of ONE open surgeon vs. those of participants in a newly initiated RALP program.  With such a wide disparity in results, the only explanation I can think of is that the surgeon in question was blind.</p>
<p>Should I really believe that there was a 31% disparity between results obtained by a trainee  in RALP vs. a (presumably) experienced open surgeon for GS 7 disease?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see these results replicated at a respectable institution.</p>
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		<title>By: Leah</title>
		<link>http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2009/03/02/the-monday-news-update-march-2-2009/#comment-3077</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Leah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 20:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/?p=4368#comment-3077</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The story comparing positive margins for RRP vs. RALP does not accord with other credible research that has been done on this subject.  So it doesn&#039;t surprise me that the research was done at  the Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine, Wyoming, Michigan.  Not exactly MD Anderson.

That a laparoscopic surgeon &quot;initiating&quot; an RALP program at a hospital would have a far superior track record than an experienced open surgeon doesn&#039;t pass the smell test.  Sorry.  We know RALP takes a long time to master.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The story comparing positive margins for RRP vs. RALP does not accord with other credible research that has been done on this subject.  So it doesn&#8217;t surprise me that the research was done at  the Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine, Wyoming, Michigan.  Not exactly MD Anderson.</p>
<p>That a laparoscopic surgeon &#8220;initiating&#8221; an RALP program at a hospital would have a far superior track record than an experienced open surgeon doesn&#8217;t pass the smell test.  Sorry.  We know RALP takes a long time to master.</p>
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